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Visit KyleN's column >>

KYLEN

Articles Posted: 3  Links Seeded: 22
Member Since: 3/2006  Last Seen: 5/18/2012

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A Little Less Hypocrisy Please

Seeded on Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:25 AM EDT
Read Article
politics, republican, democrat, health-care-debate
Seeded by KyleN
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As the debate on health care reform heats up, a familiar tactic is once again at the forefront. Rather than taking a principled stance against an opponent's arguments and countering with reason and logic, an attempt is made to marginalize them by accusing them of being kooks, racists, hate mongers or pawns of the special interests.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • KyleN's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Libertarians
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  • Public Discussion (19)
KyleN

The author puts forth exactly what I've been feeling for...at least 8 years continuing through today. Partisans are crazy and their narrow devotion stifles debate and proper analysis of government function.

  • 12 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:26 AM EDT
Joseph.

High five to that, Kyle. There's nothing worse than demagogy and ideologues jamming up the system.

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 12:15 PM EDT
Reply
brianfromPA

Thank you. I have been saying for a long time that the real enemies of the United States are Republicans and Democrats. I personally feel that devoting your life to either of them is unpatriotic. I like some democrats, and I like some republicans, but I really wish they all would just renounce their affiliation and be Americans.

  • 5 votes
Reply#2 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:54 AM EDT
Victory_in_2012

I grew up admiring Democrats, like John F. Kennedy. Maybe because I felt a little guilty when I would throw temper tantrums every time his public addresses would interrupt my cartoons and when he was assassinated I wept with the rest of the nation as the media coverage of his funeral was so mind numbingly inspiring. I believe more of his legislation got passed because of his death than would have if he would have been alive to argue for them. He became more of a legend then his presidency warranted.

The next Democrat who impressed me was Bill Clinton, mostly because my niece was the valedictorian of her school in Mena, Ark. and she was actually invited to have dinner at the governor’s mansion in Little Rock years before anyone even knew who Bill and Hillary were. I supported him through most of his two terms but was sorely disappointed when he was caught lying about his carryings on in the Oval Office.

I finally reached an age where I realized the fascination with Democrats was all based on demagoguery and feeling some sort of connection. Much like how I feel when identifying with the protagonist in a book or movie. And no doubt the fact that the liberals in Hollywood supporting Democrats had something to do with that.

I started following the Republican Party because of there support of traditional Christian values. And I noticed they would run their campaign based on those values regardless of public sentiment which was becoming increasingly liberal and anti-Christian, again a product of Hollywood's increasingly negative portrayal of Christians in their movies.

I highly regard those with enough conviction to stand by their values when everyone else goes with the flow, even to their own detriment. And I’ve seen that in President’s like Ronald Reagan and George Bush. Sometimes a leader having information unavailable to the general public will have to act counter to the wishes of the populous. And having life experience I have keen insight to what these men stood for and were trying to do to protect America.

Although both parties use propaganda and negative stereotypes, Democrats tend appeal to our baser instincts, for example; calling protesters racists for their peaceful participation in Tea Party Rallies. I realize you can draw the same conclusion about those who were called unpatriotic for not supporting George Bush and the war in Iraq. But waging war is a very difficult thing for any leader to have to do and there were timely reasons not yet apparent to most, why it was imperative everyone was onboard for that operation.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 11:25 AM EDT
chick76

Victory,

Sorry, but I don't see much in the way of Christian values by many in the Republican party. Is it moral to cheat on one's wife? Is it moral to lie? Is it moral to take money from special interest groups? No, it is not. Of course there are democrats who do the same, is that right? No! obviously not. That is why both sides need a reality check. Neither party is perfect, so I ask you to stop living in denial. It isn't doing anyone any good.

As for presidents sometimes having to make tough decisions, do you think the same thing about the stimulus package or a public option for healthcare?

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 1:18 PM EDT
Uthaclena

Victory_in_2012

Although both parties use propaganda and negative stereotypes, Democrats tend appeal to our baser instincts, for example; calling protesters racists for their peaceful participation in Tea Party Rallies.

You mean the "peaceful" Tea Baggers displaying their Second Amendment Rights at rallies? Carrying signs associating the Obamas with monkeys? Declaring that Obama plans "White Slavery," death panels, and internment camps? The posters with swasticas, hammer & sickle, talking up armed insurrection and secession? Oh, those "peaceful" teabaggers!" Can't compare to the awful things the Democrats have done... like... hmm... calling those teabaggers racist?!

  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 1:19 PM EDT
Victory_in_2012

chick,

The whole premise behind being a Christian is knowing you're a sinner and in need of redemption. But even with a few exceptions, on the whole Republicans represent my values and Democrats tend to represent a growing counter-culture that would like to tear down our entire system of government and start from the ground up which might be alright if we had anyone left with the moral fortitude to set the cornerstone.

And this counter-culture are the ones behind the stimulus package and healthcare reform or just big government in general. I tend to go with Libertarians when it comes to the size of government. It's ironic that most liberals believe people are lost sheep and need big government to take care of everything but are scared to death of becoming a theocracy?

  • 1 vote
#2.4 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:25 PM EDT
brianfromPA

Thank you Victory. Though I completely disagree with you, I admire your well thought out and descriptive argument. I was a Reagan fan myself, but as I have aged, and gained more wisdom I am able to see the harm he has done. Bush... I lived through Bush. I wouldn't wish that administration on a North Korean.

I believe Clinton did more harm to the nation in the end than what was perceived during his term as middle class prosperity. It was like he allowed the middle class to have one last gasp and a great life before it was taken out from under them and delivered to India, China, and Vietnam after a stop-over in Mexico.

If you follow the Republicans that is certainly your choice. If you want to follow the Democrats that is certainly your choice. They have both proven to me that the only people they care about are themselves and their corporate friends.

  • 1 vote
#2.5 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:37 PM EDT
Victory_in_2012

There was not one arrest at any of the Tea Party rallies or the 9/12 March on Washington D.C. And if anyone noticed disparaging signs at those rallies, apparently they did what they were meant to do and that is get your attention by stirring your emotions.

The whole idea behind protest marches is to get noticed and it appears people noticed.

Mission accomplished!

I wasn't even aware of those signs because I wasn't looking for reasons to find fault with the other 99% of people presenting legitimate grievances to D.C. legislators.

  • 3 votes
#2.6 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:46 PM EDT
Writersview

It only shows that there is indeed no perfect person and organization. More so that critiques are too many than those who could actually help.

  • 1 vote
#2.7 - Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:21 AM EST
Reply
MyOpIA

Very true. It isn't a question of which party is behaving badly. It seems to be a contest.

  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:55 AM EDT
Tiocfaidh Ar La

Seriously? You guys really think that the Democrats have been just as rude and hateful? Lots of people, myself included, said nasty things about Bush and the GOP, but they earned it. The attacks on Obama are often blatantly racist and insane, and the actual Republican politicians tend to back this B.S. fully. While Democrats refrained from attacking Bush in such a manner. In fact, they were far too polite to Bush, not really questioning anything he did.

Republican politicians have so far....

-sent out e-mails showing the White House lawn covered in watermelons

-accused Obama of being a foreigner

-accused Obama of being Muslim, as if there's something evil about that

-accused him of being a fascist AND a communist at the same time (not seeing the irony in that, apparently)

-accused Obama of wanting death panels to kill old people

-compared Michelle Obama to a gorilla

-one Republican delegate protested Obama's election IN HIS KLAN UNIFORM

and these are just the politicians. not even the pundits and the protestors.

even Kanye West's "George Bush does not care about black people" is not nearly as bad as Glenn Beck's "Obama has a deep-seated hatred for white people."

if you really think the 2 sides are equal in their vitriol and ridiculousness, you haven't been paying attention.

  • 7 votes
Reply#4 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:09 AM EDT
KyleN

Lots of people, myself included, said nasty things about Bush and the GOP, but they earned it.

That is kinda the point of the article. Each side is positive the other side deserves it, and ironically (and sadly) they are both right.

After years of hearing how Bush kills Iraqi babies for oil amongst so many other things I fail to believe the two sides hate speech is significantly different. Even Carter's recent all white people are racist oh wait I didn't really mean that comments are just more fuel to the same fire.

  • 9 votes
#4.1 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:24 AM EDT
Ron Christman

KyleN, et al - I left the Republican Party after 45 years because they no longer had 'reason and logic' or 'principled stances'. I seem to see and hear positions, ideas, and choices coming from the Democrats, but rarely hear that from the GOP. And puhleeze!, drop the insuation that the Republicans are the only Christians in this country.

BTW - 'Collateral damage' is the term that Bush used for the innocent Iraqis, including children, killed in his illegal, immoral, unjust, and just plain stupid war. There is a big difference between Carter making a partially true statement and Bush's war.

  • 3 votes
#4.2 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 2:35 PM EDT
Reply
Scarlet Termite

We has met the enemy and he is us.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:25 AM EDT
Morons-1102616Deleted
madvargr

The biggest danger has been Wall Street and will continue to be Wall Street - They just look for ways to bank huge profits in the short term that also has the side effect of destroying the entire economy when their ways fail.

We didn't learn after the Great Depression, we didn't learn after the S&L debacle, and we wont fix it after our current mess (which still may end our economy - most of the adjustable term sub prime loans made in the bubble don't get adjusted until 2010 and 2011 - Thanks to Wall Street's CDO/CDS scam, 1 trillion dollars of bad loans is leveraged into 60 trillion dollars of debt - you think the Fed can handle that?). The Gordon Geckos of our world don't give a damn about our country.

The right wing nutjobs are crazy, and they'll hurt someone like they did during Clinton, but at least they claim to care about America - they are just mad at the wrong people...

  • 1 vote
Reply#7 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 11:47 AM EDT
R PAL

We need an public option to stop the profitting of the insurance companies that is the only way co ops and market competition is alot of @!$%# they will just raise the rates anyway, insurance companies are taking in billions and turning a nice profit you cannot make a profit on healthcare it doesnt work.

  • 3 votes
Reply#8 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 12:49 PM EDT
billy-witchdoctor-com

We need a public option on all businesses to stop companies from making profits...if companies make profits they use their stinking rotten filthy luchre to pay employees who will, God forbid...use that money to buy things their family needs, or give them pay raises. Next thing you know they will send their kids to college and you what an education will do to the minds of children. I say Public opton only and the only way is to juststop insurance companies completely...just shut them down by October 15 completely, the public option is a good choice as long as their are no other companies..,.the Government can run a business better than anyone.

  • 2 votes
#8.1 - Fri Oct 2, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
Reply
Morons-1102616Deleted
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